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Aquaponics Library
aquaponic swimming pool
---------------------------------------------
13. Question = Subject: aquaponic swimming pool
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Subject: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999
We are at the very early stages of designing an greenhouse
enclosed swimming pool, assuming certain criteria can be met.
1. The water cannot be chlorinated (or brominated).
2. The greenhouse is a permaculture greenhouse with plants.
Is there any reason the water could not originate in the
aquaponic system at the discharge side of the plant beds? If
further sterilization is necessary, it could be run through UV
tubes. I will probably want to run it through charcoal for
deodorization. I have a minimal bact. lab and can test for
aerobic pathogens. Does anyone have any idea if treating the
water this way will have any negative effect on the fish or the
plants?
I swim in lakes, why can't I swim in this water? By constructing
it within an aquaponic system, aspects of the system can be
depreciated that could not normally with a recreational swimming
pool, providing significant tax benefits. This would also act as
our solar heat sink.
Please, is there anything wrong with the idea?
Donna Fezler
Jacksonville, IL
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Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999
In effect you intend to use the aquaponic components in lieu of a
pool filtration system. I read somewhere that some aquaponic
discharge water is cleaner than that which has been purified with
a reverse osmosis system. Whether one type of system is superior
at producing clean water over another is an area to look into,
ebb and flow vs NFT vs floating raft; gravel vs. perlite.
There is a commercial group somewhere in New England which is
processing its sewage through algae beds so in theory it should
work. I suspect that a key to keeping a healthy pool will be
rapid turnover of the water in the pool, ie number of total water
exchanges. After 3 years of pool ownership I can tell you that
each pool has its own personality and threshholds at which it
turns suddenly green. In this case of course, the fish would love
the algae. Simply running green water thorugh a sand filter does
not remove the algae, you need to superchlorinate it to return to
crystal clear water. On the other hand, our local public
aquariums maintain crystal clear water using ozonation systems.
If your pool got into trouble you would be very limited in
treatment options with fish and plants on-line. Good luck, it
sounds like a fun project.
Adriana
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Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999
Oh no.. If you're going to swim in the water, you really don't
want the aquaponics gunk getting into it. Although if you were
crazy enough to, you'd probably want a H2O2 injection system, UV
sterilization, and several charcoal and other filters. The other
thing you could do is chlorinate the water, and then pass it
through one of those microsieve filters which remove chlorine,
bacteria, etc.. without any chemicals. Or, just aerate the water
heavily before it returns to the fish tanks?!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999
At 07:53 AM 1/25/99 -0600, Donna wrote:
Charcoal filtration is often used in fish-rearing systems, and
probably will have no negative affect on the fish or plants.
Wonder if UV exposure would have any affect on your bacterial
levels...at least those that keep youraquaponics system in
balance?
>I swim in lakes, why can't I swim in this water?
Should be safe for swimming, but I guess the decision to use it
that way might have some bearing on the ultimate plans for your
fish and plants. I can foresee some possible complications if you
intend to raise edible plants and market these products.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775
417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999
Michael - what kind of "aquaponics gunk" do you think
will be in the water at the discharge side of the plant beds?
That's normally the place where the water is cleanest and is
returned to the fish tanks, at least in our system and I'd think
in most designs.
Using chlorine (besides it's carcinogenic properties) would
eliminate all useful bacteria from the system, causing major
disruption in the filtering capabilities and overall function of
the system.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775
417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999
Yes, your perfectly correct. But there is still bacteria in the
water, and that is what kind of worries me about swimming in the
used nutrient soup.
Yes.. I understand. However; while most bacterias in an
aquaponics system have bengin effects on humans, some do, for
example e.coli or something similar if you were to add manures to
your beds for some reason. I wouldn't feel very comfortable
swimming in the aquaponics system, and it is my opinion that you
use the water store as a "make-up tank" to compensate
for evaporation of your water, and H2O2 + UV it very often.
Chlorine, IMHO is the best and easiest way to sterilize water.
Carcinogenic, perhaps? But in the quantities it is present, it is
almost negligible (hmm.. would people stop using paper if I told
them it contained tiny amounts of dioxin?).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999
I can see no reason why you can't swim in you aquaponics water as
long as you were careful to avoid lotions, creams, deodorants,
detergents, etc on yourself. You don't want these things in your
aquaponics system. I don't think I would try to market anything
grown in something my family swam in either, but if the produce
is just for your own consumption, why not? When I read the
original post, I thought it would be great to swim and play with
my fishies. I don't think your fish water would hurt you. You are
already eating the plants grown in it and the fish that swim
there. Like I said, my concern would be more for you hurting them
with the anointments of modern society then they hurting you.
Wendy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999
Interesting comments I received. I think a small living machine
marsh environment between the pool and the fish, and the beds and
the pool is in order. Algae control can be achieved by heating
the water in black tanks instead of the pool proper.
The use of deciduous plants around the pool and/or a pool cover
in a crisis should work.
When I lived in Louisiana I would use a few dozen water hyacinths
(they did not even cover 1/10 of the surface) over the winter and
I did not have algae growth, even without the use of chlorine.
They may have and inhibitory effect.
---------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999
Yes, your perfectly correct. But there is still bacteria in the
water, and that is what kind of worries me about swimming in the
used nutrient soup.
Not all bacteria is bad. The majority of bacteria are
harmless.The significant water pathogens can be monitored fairly
cheaply.
Yes.. I understand. However; while most bacterias in an
aquaponics system have bengin effects on humans, some do, for
example e.coli or something similar if you were to add manures to
your beds for some reason. I do add manure to the beds-fish
manure. I will not add any other manure to this system. As far as
Chlorine goes, it is not the carcinogenic problems that concern
me, it is the immune system problems and the way it would
unbalance the system. It is totally out of the question and was
one of the original criteria. There is no reason to
"sterilize" the water.
Donna Fezler
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Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool(xperimental)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999
As far as the inlet to the pool, couldn't this be done w/
perforated drain tile (3-4" dia) buried w/ coarse
rock......ie the bottom of the pool is built using finer grades
of rock and sand separated by geotextile fabric to stop migration
of sand rock into different layers..The flow of water would be
upward.
This I HAVE NOT DONE. But that is how they cleanse water at some
watertreatment plants is it not?
AS long as no chlorine was used the rock and sand would support
the good nitrifying bacteria population for cleansing puprpose,
right?
In Bill Mollisons book"Permaculture, A Designer's
Manual" he lays this all out only in
reverse.........effluent from the pool(sorry he doesnt have
hooked into a fishtank) he sucks downward thru similar graduated
gravel/sand bed/perforated pipe.. dumps/pumps this water uphill,
where it gravity flows thru some reed beds that are layed out in
a convoluted fashion to maximize the lenth of travel thru this
growing bed(slow flow thru this stage is essential to allow for
absorbtion/conversion of the nasties to goodies;i guess this
works in concert w/ nitrifying bacteria, I guess similar
cleansing process you all depend on in your setups-only your
growing plants in gravel/medium dependent on nitrifying
bac))...After going thru the "reed beds" the water
flows downhill over a series of "flow forms" as he
calls them, basically a series of sssmall waterfalls to oxygenate
the water afore it splashes into the pool,This completes the
path....No chlorine, no fish either, tho if the system wass
perfected I dont see why not as long as all variables in line w/
the load/demands on the system.He does advise that tests for
presence of E. coli essential.
billevans
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
same as below---fabric and finer grade of sand
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
same as below --fabric and finer grade of rock or coarse sand
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
overlay this w/ a "geotextile"/ filterfabric barrier
and a smaller grade of rock
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
coarse rock
-===== ======== ========== ========== =========== ==========
======
perforated drain pipe(inlet to pool)
=======================================================================
Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool(xperimental)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999
Thanks for the useful note as attached. The key words
are:convoluted path, slow flow, plants, and waterfalls. We have
such a system but want to improve it by graduating to higher
volumes and faster treatment by using more efficient (edible)
plants and creating a more circuitous path and having more
splashing along the way. Is anyone else working on this? Where
can I find out more information based on experience? Jorg
ostrowski
__________________________________________________________________________
You said:effluent from the pool(sorry he doesnt have hooked into
a fishtank) he sucks downward thru similar graduated gravel/sand
bed/perforated pipe.. dumps/pumps this water uphill, where it
gravity flows thru some reed beds that are layed out in a
convoluted fashion to maximize the lenth of travel thru this
growing bed(slow flow thru this stage is essential to allow for
absorbtion/conversion of the nasties to goodies;i guess this
works in concert w/ nitrifying bacteria, I guess similar
cleansing process you all depend on in your setups-only your
growing plants in gravel/medium dependent on nitrifying
bac))...After going thru the "reed beds" the water
flows downhill over a series of "flow forms" as he
calls them, basically a series of sssmall waterfalls to oxygenate
the water
___________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999
Are you saying that the water hyacinth prevented algae growth? I
hope not since mine are helping to clean my greywater, I need my
algae to feed my fish. I wonder if it may have been the low
winter light levels?
Jorg Ostrowski
________________________________________________
You said: " When I lived in Louisiana I would use a few
dozen water hyacinths (they did not even cover 1/10 of the
surface) over the winter and I did not have algae growth,.."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool(xperimental)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999
The June/July issue of Aquaponics Journal had an article entitled
"Ornamental Pond Aquaponic System". This may help you.
The author, Scott Jones used to participate on this list and is a
supplier of some the needed parts. You can get back issues of the
Journal at: www.aquaponics.com
Adriana
---------------------------------------------------------
Subject: flowforms pools (xperimental)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999
Mollison's "flow forms"(((FF)))intrigue me..He stacks
several of these w/ a drop of a foot or so between each.
"flowform"..... looks like a circle basically (top
view) that tried to split into siamese twins, but didn't quite
make it. The FF's definately are puckered in on one side where
agua pours off into the next FF. The resultant
xcrossection...from the rim to the center axis... ( "siamese
line"(diameter)) ,the bottom drops only to rise again at
this line. The result is a water flow that alternates/oscillates
back and forth in the basins, 2 basins per FF separated by this
"siamese line". This natural turbulent flow, combined
w/ the water drop between FF's greatly enhances the aeration and
resultant cleansing of the water.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999
This is probably not the direction you wanted to go, but my
in-laws in australia have a salt water swimming pool. I believe
the salt works similarly to chlorine, but obviously not as
dangerous to _all_ living things. I've been thinking about
integrating salt water into a larger system - possibly as
a'final' destination for overflow H20 from a freshwater system. I
was thinking maybe that would be a way of taking care of the
buildup of excess salts - a salt sink.
just some flatulence of the brain, excuse me... ;-) lars fields,
airhead extraordinaire
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Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999
I wonder if the water hyacinth prevented algae growth by
outcompeting it for nutrients in an already low-nutrient
environment. Additionally, a full cover of water hyacinth would
probably shade out algae, but i guess that might not be that much
fun to swim through.. In terms of _not_ having fish in the
swimming pool - one problem i can think of is mosquitos - without
any predators the larvae will be free to grow to adulthood. Maybe
you would need to allow some fish into the 'human swimming area'
as you had orginally intended. its a wonderful idea, though. Can
you please keep the list up to date with your progress?
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Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999
What is thees theeng you call "Reverse-Osmosis Salt
Filter"?
How does it work?
Could a \\$40 one really process enough water to filter a swimming
pool?
Does it require electricity?
Is there any biological process which it mimics (ie. is there a
natural version of it)?
--------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999
A reverse osmosis filter would not let ions across, including
nitrate, phosphate, potssium, calcium, etc. My guess is that it
wouldbecome clogged by fish wastes.
John Shannonhouse
Department of Genetics
University of Wisconsin-Madison
jlshanno@students.wisc.edu
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Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:29:46 -0600
A reverse osmosis filter uses a semi-permeable membrane. The
membrane lets small, polar molecules across fairly easily (like
water), nonpolar molecules get across very easily and charged
particles (like sodium and chloride) do not move across. The ions
in water "tie up" the water molecules around them (I'm
not going to explain the chemistry here, but they hold the water
in a sort of lattice work around them). These hydrated ions do
not let their water molecules across the membrane. Only the free
water can pass across. Fresh water is all free water. In salt
water, the hydrated ions interfere with water flowing through.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics wants to equalize the salt
concentration on either side of the membrane and also drives this
flow. As a result, if fresh water and salt water are on either
side of a membrane, the water will flow from the fresh water side
to the salt water side until the pressure builds up (from the
salt water getting filled higher than the fresh water or getting
squeezed into too small a container to hold it) enough that water
is flowing at equal rates in both directions. This process is
called osmosis and the pressure needed to equalize the flow in
both directions is called osmotic pressure. It is what causes a
carrot to shrivel up in salt water.
Reverse osmosis forces the water to flow in the opposite
direction than it would at equal pressure. If the pressure builds
up high enough on the salt water side, water will flow in the
reverse direction (from salt to fresh). Reverse osmosis uses a
pump of a high column of water to make a pressure difference
large enough to force the water out of salt water.
John Shannonhouse
Department of Genetics
University of Wisconsin-Madison
jlshanno@students.wisc.edu
------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999
What is thees theeng you call "Reverse Osmosis
SaltFilter"?
Is there any biological process which it mimics (ie. isthere a
natural version of it)?
The process of plant roots taking minerals into the plant from
the surrounding soil is an "osmosis" process so if you
somehow pressurized your plant with the water you wanted to
purify (not recommended) it theoretically should cause water
purification as liquid is forced out of the roots.
(Maybe the GE guys could work on this one:>)
Anything your plants take out of the water duplicates the RO
removing things.
See:
http://www.wqa.org/Technical/What-is-RO.html
Could a \\$40 one really process enough water to filter aswimming
pool?
I seriously doubt it unless it was a good sized surplus unit
bought for pennies on the dollar.
The most important step is to know the contents of your water so
you can compare against the "NORMAL" specifications on
the box or data sheet that came with the RO you bought.
Rules of Thumb for RO Water Production:
1. Higher water temperatures than "NORMAL" will
increase RO system output water but decrease purity.
2. Lower water temperatures than "NORMAL" will decrease
RO system output water but increase purity.
3. Higher TDS than "NORMAL" will decrease RO system
output water.
4. Lower TDS than "NORMAL" will increase RO system
output water.
5. Higher water pressures than "NORMAL" will increase
RO system output water.
6. Lower water pressures than "NORMAL" will decrease RO
system output water.
7. Anything in your water can clog up an RO membrane, prefilters
are a reeaallly good idea.
8. This ones the killer! For maximum membrane life and minimum
system complexity you will have waste water production in excess
of your pure water production.
Does it require electricity?
RO membranes require at least city water pressure. This usually
means a pump.
-------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999
I have a handheld RO machine, which you pump up yourself. It can
produce a glass of water after about 20 seconds of pumping it. An
interesting thing I saw as a chlorine filter which only allows
pure water through, and no chlorine (like the salt RO) -- you can
fill your water storage tanks up with a very strong solution of
sodium hypochlorite to minimize any chance of infection for a
very long time, and as you use it the chlorine is removed.
--
e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
See keyservers for PGP info. Linux! The OS of my Choice!
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned
skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to
return."
- Leonardo da Vinci, and below an extract from John Forgety's
song:
Hey, Tonight - Gonna be tonight- Don't you know I'm flyin'-
Tonight
-------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999
I have a handheld RO machine, which you pump up yourself. It can
produce a glass of water after about 20 seconds of pumping it.
Those are a great invention :-) At the risk of sounding like
a voice of doom (Repent ye...!) We have credible reports of
handheld RO failures and have found many manufacturers will only
certify their units are microbiologically safe when fed
microbiologically safe water from approved municipal water taps.
We have found misrepresented units where the "membrane"
was actually a carbon filter or a ceramic filter. A note of
interest is that CA or CTA membranes tend to be designed to live
with chlorine/hypochlorites applied to them. The thin film, TFM
TF, membranes tend to die with chlorine/hypochlorites applied.
Some newer designs are rated to withstand low levels but you
still have to be careful.
An interesting thing I saw as a chlorine filter which onlyallows
pure water through, and no chlorine
I usually use a carbon filter. Is it based on another technology.
REDOX perhaps?
you can fill your water storage tanks up with a very strong
solution of sodium hypochlorite to minimize any chance of
infection for a very long time, and as you use it the chlorine is
removed.
This is what my wife does for disaster preparedness (it doesn't
help her with my messes) but we are careful to keep in mind the
corrosiveness of hypochlorites and use the minimum of bleach and
appropriate container materials. Old water softeners an be used
for carbon or other filters.
You just empty out the softening medium and fill it around
2/3'rds full of activated carbon, sand or whatever. (I use
potable water grade). You can set the backwash for once a week or
so and if a more vigorous agitiation of the carbon, sand or
whatever is needed you change the backwash orifice and it's good
for years removing sodium and calcium hypochlorite with carbon
medium. I saw several in the local second hand plumbing supply
yard for \\$15 to $20 US.
A bit of corporate literature about hypochlorite(s):
http://www.clorox.com/health/blchfact.html
---------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999
All of our ponds are aquaponic, with plants like hyacinth, duck
weed, azola, Chinese water spinach a.k.a. Kang Kong, and
watercress floating on top of a portion of the ponds. With
reclaimed water, we have a rich supply of nitrogenous compounds
that make algae go like gangbusters. The floating plants perform
several functions: Shade - The algae can't all be in the sun all
the time. By shading, we dampen or moderate runaway
photosynthesis;
Substrate - The undersides of floating plants is dark, and
perfect for nitrogen-fixing bacteria. By providing a dark habitat
for bacteria, they help take nitrogenous compounds out of the
water. Fish also graze on the globs of bacteria, feeding
themselves. Biomass - As the plants grow, they use the Nitrogen
to build lush foliage. We harvest the excess biomass
periodically, some for human food, some for animals, and some for
compost/vermiculture. The algae also consumes the nitrogenous
wastes as they grow. Planktivorous fish like tilapia and silver
carp graze the larger zooplankton and phytoplankton, keeping the
populations close to their maximum sustainable yeild.
By flushing about 10-20% of the pond, refilling with new
reclaimed water, we can keep the algal bloom up, providing the
majority of the nutrients for the fish.
And students swim or wade in the luxuriant green water too! Our
effluent flows into constructed wetland with emmergent plants
before flowing into a groundwater recharge area. The water
flowing into the recharge area meets or exceeds all Calfironia
safe drinking water standards. We should probably bottle it up,
or make beer with it, but we're pretty busy...
Green water is beautiful!
Fred
------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Aquaponic Swimming Pool
From: Michael Strates <mstrates@croftj.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:52:21 +1100 (EST)
I'm ready to construct myself an aquaponic swimming pool in a
four and a half foot "concrete valley" at the end of my
greenhouse's concreted area.
Where I want to place it, the concrete ends and then there is a
nearly five foot drop onto gravel, and then about five feet
further is the fenceline. The pool will be about 5ft by 20 feet.
I already have a polyethylene liner, but now I need to make up
some supports. It has to be non-permanent though (I might want to
relocate in a year or two), so I thought of using slatted pine to
make the "cradle" for the liner.. Either that or
railway sleepers bolted together. The pool will go above the
concrete "abyss" :-) and will protrude about 2-3 feet
above the concrete making about a seven foot deep pool. My
questions is:
* will the pine or the railway sleepers be able to hold the
weight of the sides? Does anybody have any experience in doing
things like this?
e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
See keyservers for PGP info. Linux! The OS of my Choice!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: renewable tank water heating
From: PHRL33A@prodigy.com (MS JEAN R SHAFFER)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999
Thank you Lars for the idea of heating fish water with compost.
Actually this would be in reach for us because we are
ecoforesters (anyone heard of that? Only take the trees Nature
has naturally selected out and leave the forest) and do our own
value adding, ie mill the logs into lumber ourselves and end up
with sawdust as a side product. Yes, I would appreciate the web
site.
Best
Jean
------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Aquaponic Swimming Pool
From: Dave Miller <recycler@eclipse.net>
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999
Depending upon the dimension of the lumber you should be able to
use pine but thicker is better, 'natch. A 2x4 pushed against the
4 dimension is abous 16 times stronger than the push against the
2 thickness so you may need more lumber but stacked on the flat.
ie: this better for stacking ---- vs: l
Also can you brace it?
Dave
--------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: aquaponic swimming pool (Our Plants)
From: "Fred Chambers, FMChambers@CSUPomona.edu"
<regenerative@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999
The nutrient-rich ponds of reclaimed water need a plant covering
of about 30-50%. If you cover too much of the pond, sunlight
can't warm the pond nor provide Oxygen through algal
photosynthesis. If the cover is too sparse, the phytoplankton
bloom too fast, shooting pH high enough to kill most fish.
We grow:
o- Tons of water hyacinth, feeding about 5% to chickens, and the
rest to compost and worms;
o- Duckweed, Same As Above
o- Azola, S.A.A.
o- Tons of Chinese water spinach (Ipomia aquatica), selling and
eating the harvested leaves and stems, feeding the rest to
chickens and compost;
o- Watercress, selling and eating the harvested leaves and stems,
feeding the rest to chickens and compost;
As with fish, the choice of plant(s) is up to the pond
microclimate. One pond has very little shading from trees or
hills, so it stays warm enough all year to keep some hyacinths
alive through the winters. Other ponds are so shaded in the
summers that we usually let pockets of watercress over-summer in
a corner. In our summers, water spinach and hyacinth grow best.
In winters, watercress and duckweed grow best. In springs, azola
and watercress fight it out.
Ipomia aquatica or Chinese water spinach is a very tasty leafy
green. It tastes similar to terrestreal spinach, but without any
bitterness. We bought ours at an Asain market. It retails for
about \\$3.95 per bunch. During winter, we floated them in pond
water in a sunny window, letting them grow roots. Once spring was
here to stay, we planted them along the eastern shore of a pond,
and trained them into the water. As the water spinach grew out
onto hyacinths and other floating plants, we removed the othe
rplants in stages. Soon, the spinach was the only plant on the
pond.
When cool weather returns, cut the plants back and build cold
frames. If we had a better way to market it, we could have sold
lots.
Our school is revamping the farm store, so maybe this summer they
can stock our spinach and fish. All they carry are our herbs,
teas, vinegars, and vegetables. They don't have a refridgerated
produce case, yet.
There ya go,
Fred
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Pool turning into Reality
From: Michael Strates <mstrates@croftj.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999
I was chatting with my father re: the possibility of constructing
an aquaponic swimming pool when he suggested to get a several
thousand gallon plastic rainwater cistern, cutting the top off
that and using it as a deep swimming pool and also as a small
aquaculture pool. The one we saw is about 6ft deep, and has a
diameter of about 6.5 feet. I want to install it inside of my
greenhouse. Hopefully we'll be able to purchase an old cheap one
(\\$300-500) from up country and the aquaponic pool should turn
into a reality in about 30 days!!
So, here come all of the questions. If I fluke a working pool,
then I'll include a whole chapter in the collabrative aquaponic
archive about it.
My main concern is any pathogens which might get in the water. So
far, my results with chlorine dioxide has been pretty bad.. 7/10
fish died after my dose per gallon exceeded one teaspoon. This
wasn't enough to keep the algae and pathogens out, by the looks
of things.
I was thinking about making a sand filter out of a 44 drum to
keep the water clear.. is this really neccessary?? and, I'd like
to know if UV sterilization (I already have a 70W tube and can
get them cheaply) would be the way to go.
I'd also be interested in H2O2 injection, if its practicle. Does
anybody have figures on how much hydrogen peroxide fishes can
stand, and whether the costs are practicle.
I heard somebody say that the used aquaponic effulent is as clean
as reverse osmosis filtration, but I really do find that hard to
beleive.
Does anybody know how many cfu's of certain bacteria are left in
their used solution outlet, or does anybody want to find out?
It'd be /really/ helpful.
Also, keeping fish in the pool? What kinds of fish would be
practicle. In the summer time, the water temperature could even
get to about 30C. In the winter, the temperature could drop down
to 25C.. could goldfish stand the thirty degree C temperatures?
Know of any fish (don't suggest talapia, we can't get them in
Oz.) that can?
e-mail: mstrates@croftj.net www: http://www.croftj.net/~mstrates
See keyservers for PGP info. Linux! The OS of my Choice!
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned
skyward, for there you have been, and there you long to
return."
- Leonardo da Vinci, and below an extract from John Forgety's
song:
Hey, Tonight - Gonna be tonight- Don't you know I'm flyin'-
Tonight
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Pool turning into Reality
From: jilli and lars <phlesch@sfo.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999
Hi Ken -
I moved from Atlanta about a year ago, but i remember they sold
live tilapia at the Dekalb International Farmer's Market near
Decatur (for eating, though i suppose you could aquire a starter
/ practice breeding stock that way). They had large tanks full of
them next to the lobsters and catfish. I'd seen them in other
'farmers markets' around the city as well. This suggests to me a
healthy market. However this also suggests some competition - you
might wanna see who else is in the biz in the area.
What kind of restaurants serve tilapia anyway? - maybe you could
go for more of a specific niche? How far are you from Atlanta?
Of course, catfish are a big market in the south. Has anyone
tried raising catfish in an aquaculture system? What kind of
requirements do catfish have?
And , as I'm sure you know, there is also a big market for
'crawdads' in the south, though typically people go for the
native species, (ie. trying to get a redclaw market established
might take time). They sell them live at the farmer's market as
well. (Have you been to the dekalb farmer's market? - its a great
place, really good food, though calling it a farmer's market is a
bit of a stretch - its more like a gourmet wholesale place that
lets in the public.)
Lars
----------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Pool turning into Reality
From: doelle <doelle@ozemail.com.au>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999
Dear Michael,
In general, there are little problems with pathogens in aquaponic
systems as long as it does not come into contact with any type of
manure. I agree here with the message Paula send on 10th
February.
However, E.coli, Legionella and Giardia are very dangerous
pathogens and the water must be treated before being used. It is
correct that most of these can be killed at 65C, but others which
form spores can not be treated and you need 120C.
The systems in the USA are very sanitary unless people use
'biofertiliser' in form of manure.
There are very few if any 'good bugs' which eat the 'bad bugs'.
That would be phantastic and we had the problem solved.
Clorination normally helps also to remove the common pathogens.
All these things you are doing.
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Subject: RE: Pool turning into Reality
From: "Fred Chambers, FMChambers@CSUPomona.edu"
<regenerative@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999
... he suggested to get a several thousand gallon plastic
rainwater cistern, cutting the top off that and using it as a
deep swimming pool and also as a small aquaculture pool.
The one we saw is about 6ft deep, and has a diameter of about 6.5
feet. I want to install it inside of my greenhouse. Hopefully
we'll be able to purchase an old cheap one (\\$300-500) from up
country and the aquaponic pool should turn into a reality in
about 30 days!!
STOP -- Don't pay that much. Assuming you are talking US Dolalrs,
the price range you are using is far too high. The Center for
Regenerative Studies, where I did a lot of aquaculture, bought a
couple dozen "Sun-Lite "tanks from Solar Components in
New Hampshire. A couple of our prof's who had gone to New
Alchemy, swore by them. They cost about \\$200 a piece, with
dramatic reductions if you buy in volume. Look them up at
http://www.solar-components.com
The tanks are lightweight, and very translucent for light
frequencies necessary for photosynthesis. The tanks green up
nicely in a day or two, ready for tilapia or other planktivores.
I would not want to use a water tank for a swimming/soaking tub
because the fiberglass may irritate your skin. Tanks meant for
fish may have the fiber-substrate in a more inert state.
So, here come all of the questions. If I fluke a working pool,
then I'll
My main concern is any pathogens which might get in the water. So
far, my results with chlorine dioxide has been pretty bad.. 7/10
fish died after my dose per gallon exceeded one teaspoon. This
wasn't enough to keep the algae and pathogens out, by the looks
of things.
If you feel that you have to sterilaize the incoming water, do it
in batches, before you add it to your culture water. With a
little thought, you could probably even automate this phase.
Algae is good! It is working *FOR* you. It converts nitrogenous
wastes back into food. Filter feeding animals like tilapia,
silver carp, and bivalves harvest the plankton. If you don't put
filter feeders in, then put carp, like common carp or goldfish.
As the phytoplankton and zooplankton die, they settle out of the
water column. Carps and crayfish will eat this detritus.
Keep your tank in the sun. In the winters, a cover made from
clear ag plastic keeps the tank warm enough for tropicals
outdoors in the snow.
Fred
FMChambers@csupomona.edu Agricultural Sciences
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