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Subject: Introductions
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 18:41:55 -0600

This list has been so quiet the last few days, I was beginning to think that
EVERYONE had unsubscribed. But I checked the roster, and we're all still
here:>)

This might be a good time for those who are new to the list to post a short
introduction and whatever question(s) are most important. Let us know a
little about you and your plans (or status of your system); and if you have
questions, post them as well. There is no shortage of expertise in the
group, and I think we'll see some interesting discussion.

Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Introductions
From: "D.Bennett"
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 19:49:16 -0500

>introduction and whatever question(s) are most important. Let us know a
>little about you and your plans (or status of your system); and if you have
>questions, post them as well. There is no shortage of expertise in the
>
I live in Ohio and have no experience in aquaculture or hydroponics,
but want to put in a greenhouse employing these techiques.
The ideal system for me would be one that would require
as little fossil fuels as possible. I think tilapia would need
warmer water than ours would be in the winter time, (comment
please) so, I'm trying to find info on raising catfish in 500
or 1000 gal. tanks for the hydroponic garden. I'd please
like to have someone discuss this subject and/or mentor
me in this project.

---------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Introductions
From: "Sulfercreek" <dbok@bright.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 21:25:12 -0500

Hi I'm Dave Bok and I live in northwest Ohio(35 miles east of Ft Wayne, Ind)
I farm organic since 1986,about 150 ac. Natures Way Organic Farm
I also work at Johns Manville,I make fiberglass pipe insulation,I work a
swing shift(change shifts every 2 days) Wife Cathie,daughter just left for
the US Air Force last tues and we hopefully will go to Texas for graduation
from boot camp. Going to be a grandpa in a couple of weeks and again in
August,daughter is getting married when she comes home on leave in July
I have a 30 x 80 greenhouse that has been idle for 3 yr because the semi
took all my extra time its gone now. Sad thing is the greenhouse money seems
to be flowing into the wedding fund now,dont you just hate it when that
happens.
Been lurking here for the past year reading and learning thanks to all of
you
Didnt mean to write a book but here I am
Howdy All
Stay Safe
----- Original Message -----
From: "S & S Aqua Farm"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 7:41 PM
Subject: Introductions

> This list has been so quiet the last few days, I was beginning to think
that
> EVERYONE had unsubscribed. But I checked the roster, and we're all still
> here:>)
>
> This might be a good time for those who are new to the list to post a
short
> introduction and whatever question(s) are most important. Let us know a
> little about you and your plans (or status of your system); and if you
have
> questions, post them as well. There is no shortage of expertise in the
> group, and I think we'll see some interesting discussion.
>
> Paula
> S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
> Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
>

-------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Introductions
From: "TGTX"
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 20:57:25 -0600

> The ideal system for me would be one that would require
> as little fossil fuels as possible. I think tilapia would need
> warmer water than ours would be in the winter time, (comment
> please) so, I'm trying to find info on raising catfish in 500
> or 1000 gal. tanks for the hydroponic garden. I'd please
> like to have someone discuss this subject and/or mentor
> me in this project.

Howdy, D. Bennet

I had a dream last night about really big catfish in an aquaponics tank, so
maybe I am supposed to chirp in here. I have designed, set up and operated
aquaponics systems and I am still working on my next great, and better
design, so I would be glad to try to help to a certain degree....but just
keep in mind that I have my own strange permutations to compare to and
recommend from.... based on my local experience, climate, market, fish and
plant preferences, you name it. So take all this with a big grain of salt,
etc.

Part One:

CONSERVATIVE / IMAGINATIVE DESIGN ASSUMPTIONS
(I am composing this off the top of my head, so if I leave stuff out or
exaggerate things beyond the pale of your experience, I know you aquaponic
warriors will fill in the gaps or correct me here....)

1) Harvest 250 lbs whole catfish from a 1000 gallon tank in 12 months
2) Stock fingerlings and feed them for 12 months to a harvest size
3) Good harvest size ranges between 0.75 lbs and 1.25 lbs.
4) You could grow 1 lb fish/gallon, but with much more
energy/technology/costs
5) Assume \\$15 to $25 to buy, transport, and stock 250 catfish fingerlings.
5) Assume feed to conversion ratio (FCR) is about 2 to 1.
6) That means 2 lbs fish food results in 1 lb whole carcass fish flesh in 12
months.
7) Assume cost of feed is \\$0.30/ lb (high end of price spectrum).
8) Feed cost for 1 year = 2lb/lb x 250 lb x \\$0.30/lb = $150.
9) Assume 500 ft^2 greenhouse to do this.
10) Assume 200 ft^2 growing bed of gravel, perlite, NFT,what have you.
11) Assume 0.20 -0.50 lbs edible "produce"/ ft^2 / month(28-35 days)
12) Think about the range of \\$1 to $10 / ft^2 to build your 500 ft^2
greenhouse, including tanks, pumps, heating, lights, environmental
control....this is highly variable depending on how fancy you get, how
resourceful you are at scrounging, your construction skills, local
availability of salvage materials, labor availability, family participation,
inventiveness, etc..so let's go with \\$5 / ft^2, which is still WAY high in
my opinion for a small home-built aquaponics greenhouse.
13) Assume \\$100/mo energy+water+debt service+consumables for the 500 ft^2
operat
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Introductions
From: Vik Olliver <vik@olliver.penguinpowered.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 20:49:56 +1200

Hi,

I'm an artist, programmer, satellite designer, part-time journalist and
incorrigible tinkerer. I'm designing hydroponic systems for use on the
Earth's moon as part of The Artemis Project (http://www.asi.org) and
feel that the only way to understand the problem is to get in there and
muck with it.

I'm doing an article on said work for The Growing Edge magazine
inbetween my "day" job and designing aerospace equipment.

Vik :v)
--
A member of The Olliver Family http://olliver.penguinpowered.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Introductions
From: Ray Schneider <rschneid@shentel.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 07:00:58 -0500

<<Delurking, Captain>>

Since everyone is doing Introductions, I thought I'd chip in again with
mine. My name is Ray Schneider and I'm the Director of Engineering at a
small CATV Instrument company, ComSonics, nestled in the Shenandoah
Valley of Virginia. Almost four years ago I got interest in hydroponics
and started experimenting with it on the deck of my house. I was
hooked!

It is a great hobby and I've met many friends both in person and on the
listserv. I wrote an article about my first summer experience for
Growing Edge magazine and started writing other articles for them about
things like hydroponics in prision, growing lettuce commercially,
growing tomatoes in my basement through the winter.

A friend, Marlan Showalter has been interested in aguaponics for a long
time and sort of motivated me to learn about it. I don't have any fish
yet -- but like tomatoes, I like to eat them ... so I have a built in
interest. Still it would be primarily as a hobbyist. I'm also planning
to write some stories about aguaponics, if I ever find the time.

This list is a great place!

Cheers, Ray

<<Reenergize Lurking Function>>
--
Ray Schneider
rschneid@shentel.net
On the Search for the PERFECT tomato.
Come See Me at:
http://www.user.shentel.net/rschneid
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: "TGTX"
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 06:26:48 -0600

> Where's local? What's your market and what kind of fish?

I have grown Tilapia in a warm climate. I encourage you to try Tilapia,
because I think you can keep them warm just about wherever you are. This is
not an insurmountable problem. Just build in thermal mass, insulation, and
back up heat into the greenhouse design equation.

> >2) Stock fingerlings and feed them for 12 months to a harvest size

> Would the recommended way be to stock each tank
> with the 250 fingerlings at the same time? I mean,
> you wouldn't want to put little ones in with bigger ones
> and then try and dip out just the big ones to harvest,
> right? The later might *extend the paycheck*. :-)

Again, D., I just fired this off the top of my head. Certainly you may wish
to stagger stock your crop. You also want to do that with your vegetables
or produce in the growing beds. Let's say you have 2 1000 gallon tanks.
Perhaps you stock 250 fingerlings in tank 1 in January, and 250 fingerlings
in tank 2 in June....you will have to work that out. I would not recommend
stocking fingerlings in with half grown fish all swimming together. Perhaps
some suspended cages for the little guys and girls for 6 months. Don't let
them get too crowded, but you would be impressed with the fish density you
can acheive with either Tilapia or Catfish in a well run, highly oxgenated
aquaponics system. I chose to use 0.25 lbs per gallon as a baseline for
you.

>
> >5) Assume feed to conversion ratio (FCR) is about 2 to 1.
>
> How much of an assumption is that? Is that a norm for
> catfish?
>
Oh, you might get 1.5 to 1....some report even better for greenwater culture
of Tilapia for example, but I would assume 2 to 1 or even 2.5 to 1. Start
with a conservative estimate, so that you can be happily "surprised" when
you do even better. If your waste removal and oxygenation is inadequate,
then you will "hit a wall" in the growth curve and you will not get those
fish past 0.5 lbs per fish

> >6) That means 2 lbs fish food results in 1 lb whole carcass fish flesh in
> 12
> >months.
> >7) Assume cost of feed is \\$0.30/ lb (high end of price spectrum).
> >8) Feed cost for 1 year = 2lb/lb x 250 lb x \\$0.30/lb = \\$150.
>
> Someone told me once that you can feed out catfish
> on not much more than just cornmeal. Is that so?

Sure, you can be creative and innovative in what you feed your fish. I have
tried many things. I would still rely on the convenience and "complete"
formula of commercial feed.
Again, I assumed you would use expensive pelleted feed for a complete diet.
My pellets averaged around 24 cents a pound, but that was because I was
buying in 50 lb bag quantities, rather than ordering bulk and having to
accomodate for long term temperature controlled feed storage, the cost of
feed storage space, the construction and maintenance of pest control and
losses due to waste, etc. You might find feed in a complete diet pellet as
low as 12 cents a pound, but, again, put a fudge factor on your assumptions.

> >9) Assume 500 ft^2 greenhouse to do this.
> >10) Assume 200 ft^2 growing bed of gravel, perlite, NFT,what have you.
>
> I think with 500 ft^2, I'd probably have 400 ft^2 of growing bed.
> Sounds strange, huh? Well....you see I live on steep hillsides.
> My GH will have to be terraced inside. Sound ridiculous, right?
> Okay, spare my feelings, let's go on...:-)
>
No, not ridiculous at all. I just came up with a rough estimate of 200 ft^2
for a grow bed size for a 1000 gallon tank and assumed you would want some
comfort and convenience of walking around the fish tank and growing beds.
Again, I assumed this was a hobby or home aquaponics system, so I figured
some luxury in space...an environment you can walk around in and just
breathe in the sense of satisfaction, or sigh over the sense of
responsibility and committment....depending on your perspective after you
have built this.

> >11) Assume 0.20 -0.50 lbs edible "produce"/ ft^2 / month(28-35 days)
> >12) Think about the range of \\$1 to $10 / ft^2 to build your 500 ft^2
> >>inventiveness, etc..so let's go with \\$5 / ft^2, which is still WAY high
in
>
> We've got under a dollar / ft^2 in my little 8x8, but it
> doesn't have hydro in it.

Yes, you can build almost any kind of structure, but I assume you also want
heaters, fans, perhaps evaporative coolers, water supply, electrical
circuits for lights and pumps, grow bed structures, fish tank(s), plumbing,
perhaps flooring of some kind, etc.

> >13) Assume \\$100/mo energy+water+debt service+consumables for the 500 ft^2
>
> Ouch! But a necessary burden to bear, I guess.

Again, this is pulling numbers out of the air. A wood stove can help.
Insulation and greenhouse design can help reduce energy costs. Just know
that there is always something that pulls money out of your pocket on a
recurrent basis that we can call expense or the cost of doing business, even
if you are not doing this to go into "business". Even an aquarium hobby has
expenses associated with it, if you want to keep things going, or especially
if you decide to turn your house into wall to wall aquariums...God help me.

> >The answer might be something like this:
> >1) 250 lbs of catfish/year which might be valued by you at \\$3.00/lb, or
>
> What's the market? I mean, do you usually sell at a local market,
> restaurants, individuals, a wholesaler, etc.? Do you sell whole,
> live or dressed?
>
I assumed you were the consumer. Sorry if I misunderstood, or if that is
not your plan.
Local Oriental Markets like live Tilapia delivered live in water tanks.
This is problematic. Some folks like to come out to the farm and buy the
fish right on the spot.
MY ADVICE IS : DO NOT CONSIDER PROCESSING YOUR FISH IN ANY WAY IF YOU ARE A
SMALL SCALE FISH FARMER WHO WANTS TO SELL HIS FISH.
Fresh whole fish on ice would be as far as I would go down that road...and I
mean fresh...like less than 3 hours out of the live tank. The reason for
that is this: The moment you cut, scale, skin, filet, gut or otherwise
process a fish for sale to the public, you become a seafood processor and
subject to regulation by the Food and Drug Administration. Not my idea of a
nice stroll in the park.

In fact, the FDA would likely consider just washing and packing the whole
fish on ice as "processing", so if I were you I would consider the Oriental
Markets for live sales, or having a local chef come out to your farm
periodically for live sales, that sort of thing.

> >2) 400 lbs of edible produce/year which you might value at \\$3.00/lb..etc.
>
> Is this number pulled out of the air or based on experience?
> \\$3./lb. seems kind of high to me, but then, I don't know a thing
> about it! I've only seen the grocery consumer side of it. :-)

Depends on what you grow and how much and how consistently (ie., do you want
to take a break every so often, do you want to go to the lake cabin or the
beach for a couple of weeks or stop doing the greenhouse thing for....the
summer...or the winter...you should ask yourself these kinds of things
before starting). Mesculn salad greens can sell wholesale at anywhere from
\\$3.00 /lb on up. I have sold salad greens to some customers for \\$8.00/lb
just because it was so good, so fresh, so healthy, so tasty, and because I
am so cute and such a nice young man. Grandma really didn't have to pay
that much, but who can argue with a stubborn 80 year old sweetheart on a
Mission from God? Of course, she secured an endless supply of FREE salad
greens from that point on... after only a small amount of mock resistance
that she simply couldn't take it for free.

> >"loss".....but it should "pay" for itself.....within 4 years...depending
on
>
> To tell you the truth, except for some kind of multi-level marketing
> scheme, or something like that, I don't know of too many businesses
> that would pay for themselves in 4 years. Am I wrong?

Well, yes it can happen. Depends on the debt load from capital investment
up front, economies of scale, and a million other factors....My advice is
start small. Start cheap. Scrounge and salvage and take it easy. Don't
get burned out. And don't go into a partnership. Let it be your own
creation rather than design and operation by committee. Period. Present
company accepted. Here we can collaborate and share some information.

Again, I guess I just tried to introduce the idea of a home operation. I
would not go into "business" with only 1 1000 gallon tank and 1 200 ft^2
grow bed. I have designed and operated a couple of systems...ranging from
small to medium size (1500 ft^2 on the small end, 8500 ft^2 on the medium
end...Gordon Creaser and others have designed and operated systems that are
FAR, FAR larger, so my experience doesn't even show up on their radar
screen...) Each of the aquaponics systems I have been involved with so far
had way too many people involved in the process, or perhaps the wrong
initial set of circumstances and mixtures of personalities, etc., so I am
going for my next system solo...nobody else but me, myself and I.

My next system will be a 3000 ft^2 greenhouse with about 4000 gallons of
Tilapia culture and another 5000 to 10,000 gallons to play with for
ornamental fish, crustaceans, and things that go bubble and bump in the
night...and about 2000 ft^2 of grow beds for various things ranging from
salad greens to water garden ornamental plants to landscape plants. I am
going to take it easy for a while. But then, that's just me.

> >entertainment/novelty, or how DESPARATE you are to grow the product for
>
> I worked in a plastics plant for 21 years, then got sold
> to a company with what I considered poor work ethics.
> I walked away from a very much above average
> income for my area, because I hated it so much
> and because I wanted to be HOME. Home for
> me is where my horses, goats, donkeys, dogs,
> hills and GARDEN are.
>

I'm with you D. Home is where the heart is.
Leave enough room in that greenhouse for a picnic table and a hammock.

Ted
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: OHILIP N BURNETT <philipburnett@juno.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:18:03 -0600

Here goes!!!

I have subscribed to this lsitserv. for several months and I am
interested in raising tilapia someday. I have 40 achers in south west
Missouri. The land is rolling and mostly cleared. There are several low
areas that could be made into nice ponds or some sort of holding tanks
for raising fish. I have been introduced to tilapia at the local "SAMS"
store (free sample) and was pleased at the texture and taste of the fish.

I would like to tour the operation in south central MO. when I have the
time. I live in Saint Louis and tied to a regular job here, the 40
achers was more or less purchased as a retirement place, how ever I
would like to learn what I can so when the opportunity arrives, I can
make the decision to invest the time and effort. I am also interested in
the hydroponics aspect of the operation, the two go together very well
and it would be a shame to not take advantage of the benefits.

Thanks for taking the time to manage this listserv. this forum is of
great benefit to all that subscribe.

Philip Burnett/ Saint Louis, MO.

philipburnett@juno.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Fw: Introductions
From: "John Dalton" <john@victoria-gardens.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:29:48 -0600

> Subject: Re: Introductions
>
>
> >
> > ----- Hello all:
> > We're a retired couple who have settled in West Plains, MO, basically in
> > Paula's backyard.
> > We have a small B&B and have an interest in setting up a small
> > hydroponic/aquaponic system to provide both fresh fish and vegetables
for
> our B&B guests.> We were
> > trying to get our firstsmall greenhouse up this past summer, but didn't
> get the plans done in time.
> > This year we'll do both the small one and lay out the plans for a larger
> system.
> > We've subscribed to this list for months and have learned something from
> > everyone and are very appreciative for all the information and comments.
> > One question though - are there any aquaponics systems set up in Alice
> > Springs or Sydney Australia? John will be spending 6 weeks down under
> starting next week and
> > if he has time, he may be able to tour one of the sites.
> >
> > Thanks again for all the information.
> >
> > Laura and John Dalton
> > 1461 State Route BB
> > West Plains, MO 65775
> > john@victoria-gardens.com
> > www.victoria-gardens.com
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: introductions
From: laberge@cil.qc.ca (LABERGE MARC)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:31:00 -0500

Hello all, My name is Marc Laberge I live up in Quebec near Mont Tremblant
a sort of Whistler resort on the east side of Canada ). While finishing off
my BSc at McGill University I had a chance to work with recirc systems for
many years in our lab, while becoming a fish parasitologist specialist. I
managed one of Quebec's largest fish farms , long enough to see the drastic
effects of fish farm effluent on what once was a beautiful lake 1 hour north
of Ottawa.
I also worked with the Cree community of northern Quebec for many years
conducting commercial fishery pilot projects determining quantity and
quality of fish belonging to the native communities.
On one hand I saw the nutrient rich waters of a fish farm being given to
algae in the lake and on the other hand I saw how fresh vegetables are so
hard to come by in the northern communities.
I am presently renting a house on a pay-per-inch fish farm belonging to one
of my ex-students. I have built a lab and am presently working on achieving
a balance between speckled trout , bacteria growth and lettuce/ fine herbs
crop . I use many of the tilapia equations which I must modify for trout and
bacteria at 15C (60F ). I am still analyzing markets and risk factors before
starting up a 12 tone commercial pilot project on this farm.

I am still amazed at how knowledge can be so quickly passed on via great
people and internet, thank you.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 10:56:59 -0500

Ted,

I think you've given D some excellent advice. There's no substitute for
that slippery learning curve, but a group like this sure helps you to
steer around the many mine-fields...

> before starting). Mesculn salad greens can sell wholesale at anywhere from
> \\$3.00 /lb on up.
You should be able to get \\$5-6/# from restaurant customers IF, you are a
serious supplier who can provide quality greens on a consistent basis
(how to do that and still go on vacation I haven't quite figured
out...:>))

>I have sold salad greens to some customers for \\$8.00/lb
I sell 8 oz bags of greens to my neighbors for \\$4 and they are happy to
pay it, but to expand this to a larger group would imply greater
delivery expenses than a nine year-old on a bicycle...

> up front, economies of scale, and a million other factors....My advice is
> start small. Start cheap. Scrounge and salvage and take it easy. Don't
> get burned out. And don't go into a partnership.
Again, excellent advice, start small, minimize the up-front investment
and learn the technology, only then think about expansion. I find your
comment about partnerships interesting; I had thought that this is one
way around the difficulties of being on-duty 7 days/week 365 days/year.
But like any other partnership I suppose it is as tricky or more
difficult than keeping a marriage going happily. Does anybody have
experience running a commercial aquaponics or hydroponic operation with
a relative other than a spouse?
>
> My next system will be a 3000 ft^2 greenhouse with about 4000 gallons of
> Tilapia culture and another 5000 to 10,000 gallons to play with for
> ornamental fish, crustaceans, and things that go bubble and bump in the
> night...and about 2000 ft^2 of grow beds for various things ranging from
> salad greens to water garden ornamental plants to landscape plants.
Ted, it seems to me that the 2,000 sq ft of grow-bed will pretty much
fill up that greenhouse if you allow 1/3 of the space for circulation.
Do you plan to put the fish outside since in Texas that would not be a
problem? Or vice-versa, are the grow-beds going outside?

> I'm with you D. Home is where the heart is.
> Leave enough room in that greenhouse for a picnic table and a hammock.
The greenhouse can be the epitome of serenity...except when you have 50#
of greens to pick by yourself in 3 hours, or the aphids take over, or
the pvc springs a leak or the cooler dies on a hot morning, etc, etc,
etc.... Still, I'll be hitting my one-year anniversary of setting up my
greenhouse this week and I love it!

Adriana
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Introductions
From: "William Brown"
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 06:01:33 -1000

Hi,
I'm William Brown on the Big Island of Hawaii, a commercial grower (7 years)
of hydroponic lettuce using the non-circulating raft system. I currently
have 4000 sq feet under plastic and am in the process of adding another 4800
sq feet this year. I expect to try other crops such as tomatoes, cucumbers,
peppers, salad greens, strawberries and corn. I would like to eventually
establish an organic lettuce system using fish or crustacean effluent. In
my extra time I help maintain computers, software and networks for my
children's school and several friends.

William Brown mahiwai@cmpmail.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: "Joe Insana" <jinsana39@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 11:59:33 EST

Hi Everyone,

I live in North Central Ohio, I basically lurk on this sight. I learn a lot
from just reading. I have a small tank (was 50 gallon but now I bought a
275 gallon used tote from a local bakery that I cut in half) with 35 tilapia
in my house ,the fish are averaging over a pound each. I did have a
hydroponics side but am now in the process of changing my system over to a
diffent design to better match the larger tank fish tank. This is my first
time with fish and I have found that tilapia is a good first fish to work
with. My next goal is to have a green house to do this in.

Joe Insana

>From: S & S Aqua Farm
>Reply-To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
>To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
>Subject: Introductions
>Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 18:41:55 -0600
>
>This list has been so quiet the last few days, I was beginning to think
>that
>EVERYONE had unsubscribed. But I checked the roster, and we're all still
>here:>)
>
>This might be a good time for those who are new to the list to post a short
>introduction and whatever question(s) are most important. Let us know a
>little about you and your plans (or status of your system); and if you have
>questions, post them as well. There is no shortage of expertise in the
>group, and I think we'll see some interesting discussion.
>
>Paula
>S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
>Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Introductions
From: "John Skellion" <skellion@sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:00:45 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Everyone-

I'm trying to absorb all this new information but it's tough! My name is Darlene Skellion and I live in Rifle, CO , which is in Western Colorado. We have 40 acres at 6400 ft ( elevation means a lot here as far as weather) and Lots of sun. We just finished building our straw bale house and now it's time to tackle a new project. We've been wanting to aquafarm since reading about S&S in Growing Edge magazine in 1994.

We have a small attached greenhouse that I plan on expanding and putting in at least 3 beds for experimental purposes.We've become experts at recycling and selvedge while building our house so the cost of this initial start-up "should" be minimal. Our main concern at this point is heating at this altitude. It gets quite warm here during the day when it's sunny ( which is most of the time) but the nights are a different story. When it's clear the temp. can drop dramatically in minutes. I guess the only way to know for sure is install a tank and just monitor it. Does anyone out there have any experiences they can share?

This site is a treasure trove of information-thanks to everyone who =
contributes!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: Raul Vergueiro Martins <rvm@sti.com.br>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:23:21 +1300

S & S Aqua Farm wrote:

> This list has been so quiet the last few days, I was beginning to think that
> EVERYONE had unsubscribed. But I checked the roster, and we're all still
> here:>)
>
> This might be a good time for those who are new to the list to post a short
> introduction and whatever question(s) are most important. Let us know a
> little about you and your plans (or status of your system); and if you have
> questions, post them as well. There is no shortage of expertise in the
> group, and I think we'll see some interesting discussion.
>
> Paula
> S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
> Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/

Hello Paula:

Really too few messages during the last days.
So, let me give you some work.
I'm looking for details in the production of alfafa using the aquaponics system.

Can you or anybody in the list help me?

Greetings

Raul Vergueiro Martins
rvm@sti.com.br
------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: Bertmcl
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:24:59 EST

Hello Everyone this is a great list to be on.

I am Bert McLaughlin in New Kent,Va (25 miles east of Richmond, Va). For
years I have been interested in organic gardening. but never tried on a large
scale. Now after close to 8 yrs of reading,traveling and expermenting with
Aquaculture. I now am setting up an Aquaponics system along the S&S Aqua
system. I along with my Brother have tried many different ways of rearing
fish in recirculation systems, YES we have killed a lot of fish with our
mistakes, but that has been an advantage of being very,very small. Last year
I built a very,very low tech and low labor system for growing from birth to
fry and then to fingerlings and up to 1 lb of TILAPIA.

When I learned about the S&S system,even after getting the information from
Tom & Paula; I was not sure that the system would really work. I had a very
small greenhouse with about 1200 gallons water with different ages of Tilapia
so I took a 55 gallon Aquarium with 15 small Tilapia (about 1/4 lb) and put
in a little giant pump a timer and some plants that were dug up from the
garden and started the system going< I could not believe the growth of the
plants and the fish lived without any additional areation. Everything I was
told and read about the S&S system really worked. Next I built from scrap
material a 1' x 12' x 4" growing bed and again what a wonder -- Woody Plant
cutting taken in late November rooted and produced leaves in 45 days . My
next growing bed was 2'x8'x1' (becaused of limited space) . Lettuce seed
sowed 1/1/00 sprouted on 1/2/00, It now has Sugar
Peas,lettuce,kale,mustard.Tomato plants, and marigold flowers.

I am just waiting for the weather to improve so that I may start construction
on a 30'x50' greenhouse with full size beds and follow the S&S guideline.

Well thats enough about me, keep on writting I am learning a lot and look
forward to reading aboit others operations.

One last note DON'T START WITHOUT SOME SORT OF BACKUP POWER SYSTEM.
Bert
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: "D.C., Cathy Dreger" <dreger@peoplepc.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 21:27:46 -0500

Introduction. I'm a development officer for a liberal arts college, doing
marketing, raising funds and thinking about the future of our institution.
Cathy is an administrative assistant (read: runs the joint) for an nonprofit
attached to the college that seeks to provide micro-economic development
projects as part of their Christian ministry. We've thought of hydro- and
aquaponics as valuable tools to use in 3rd and 4th world countries in the
process of not just teaching a man to fish, but teaching him to raise fish
and greens. I'm looking forward to reading the (Creaser's?) article on
aquaponics in Honduras. I grew up in Nicaragua where we had 6-9 feet of rain
a year, and the abject poverty is palpable. How to bring a high-tech concept
into a low-tech environment is what has been stumping me. Of course, it's
been an intellectual exercise to date, I've done nothing more than whet my
waders so far!

On the personal side, we're investigating raising tilapia in an organic
green water system in a 16x60x6' pit in a 30x90 grnhse. The pit helps to
solve some of Darlene Skellion's problems with the cold, adjusting water
depth for frostline depth. Being 12 mi. south of Chattanooga, TN, we're not
bothered so much, but at 2,100 ft. altitude, it is a factor for us to
consider. She mentioned lots of sun, so solar collection most likely would
be feasible. Being parsimonious, I'd investigate winter installation of
bubble insulation and a reflective material for the north side at least.
Part 2 is hydro-grown greens in the remaining 20+ feet. We would grow water
lettuce in the pond to assist in recycling the water. We're observing a
system or two in our area now -- start date for us (pit and grnhse) is about
a month if we can get a 1/2 acre of trees cleared before everything goes
muddy.

We're contacting several area restaurants about using "naturally grown"
greens. Would using the term "hydroponically grown" be of better marketing
value? A few fish would end up in restaurants within easy reach, but most
would be macerated into organic fish emulsion -- fertilizer for the "quiche
and boutique" market.

I had suggested a few weeks ago that listers include their geographical
location in their signatures. Many of you have complied, and we (me and
mine) appreciate that. I feel there are so many variables, not the least of
which is location and altitude, that it is a significant point to consider.
If I were truely organized, I'd have an Excel spreadsheet linked to a map
interactively so I could track each of you instantaneously. But alas, I'm
more of a wordsmith than a technobyter.

As lurkers we've appreciated you more than you can know, including
diversions.

D.C. & Cathy Dreger
Lookout Mountain, GA
-----------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: "KevinLReed" <kreed@midpac.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:53:45 -1000

Aloha All,
I recently moved my family to Hawaii and now never tire of writing " Aloha"
on my email. I am trained in Biotechnology and Cytogenetics. I work with a
Hawaiian group on Kauai, Hawaii. We are trying to use the Sperano aquaponic
system to feed an in ground organic greenhouse and also use the converted
fish effluents to fertilize and water field crops. On Kauai ( as may be the
case in most places) we are trying to use zero cost fish food ( Duckweed,
snails and brewery waste) to keep our production costs as low as possible
while extending the impact of the aquaponics as far as possible. I am hoping
that the integration of aquaponics, open field farming as alley intercrops
in tropical hardwood plantings will provide sufficient revenue to service
investor debt from purchasing farm property. The idea here is to control
14,000 acres to be turned to tropical hardwood forestry using the aquaponic
growhouse as the key Risk Management tool. The end product of our work will
be to bring all of the information we gain from experience, from this group
and other sources into a form that we can teach to students at our proposed
charter school. Hopefully we can show the students how to plan, implement
and maintain aquaponics - open field - forestry systems in all aspects from
site selection through marketing including Risk Management, financing,
grants and carbon credits etc. as well as all of the nuts and bolts in
between.

Information from the group has always been extremely reliable and sound
with some welcome debate about my stand on GE ) and I like the ideas and
helpful attitude of the people in this group. My biggest question now is who
would like to write a book about integrated farming systems that are based
on aquaponics? SMILE
The other question is can anyone recommend a good red color lettuce.

Kevin L. Reed

My question is who wants to write a book about aq
----- Original Message -----
From: "S & S Aqua Farm"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 2:41 PM
Subject: Introductions

> This list has been so quiet the last few days, I was beginning to think
that
> EVERYONE had unsubscribed. But I checked the roster, and we're all still
> here:>)
>
> This might be a good time for those who are new to the list to post a
short
> introduction and whatever question(s) are most important. Let us know a
> little about you and your plans (or status of your system); and if you
have
> questions, post them as well. There is no shortage of expertise in the
> group, and I think we'll see some interesting discussion.
>
> Paula
> S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
> Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: "Dale Robinson" <prof-robinson@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:38:02 -0800

Hi all,
I'm Dale Robinson. I've been member of this list for over a year. I mostly
a lurk on this list because you mostly want to talk about the fish.
I am mostly interested in hydroponics although I do occasionally like to
read
about what people are doing on the fish side of aquaponics. Aquaponics has
been of something of interest to me long before I ever saw this list. I
would like to kill a few plants before I start killing fish. I just
acquired a book about aquaponics that I haven't had time to crack the cover
on yet. I worked for about 6 months in a hydroponic greenhouse. The
operation has shut down now but I was able to purchase a lot of the supplies
from them. The experience of growing Hydroponic tomatoes was great too. I
just became a grandfather this morning at 1:10. My son came from Germany to
be with his wife when the baby came. Missed the event by 15 minutes. Oh
well!
I'm located in Davenport, Iowa. I don't have a lot of space to work with.
My first hands on experiments were done last year even though I have been
interested in it for about 15 years. I wish I had started sooner!

Dale Robinson
mwhydroponics@worldnet.att.net
Http://home.att.net/~mwhydroponics/
Low prices on small quantities
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 03:34:44 -0500

> We've thought of hydro- and
> aquaponics as valuable tools to use in 3rd and 4th world countries
> How to bring a high-tech concept
> into a low-tech environment is what has been stumping me.

DC,
There is an article in a recent Growing Edge magazine on a Colombian
working for one of the international agencies (United Nations perhaps)
who is doing exactly that for hydroponics (no fish). He has fine-tuned
a simple design for hydro growing tables built out of old pallets and
uses media based on the best locally available. He runs participants
through a series of workshops. The end result is a tool to raise
households out of poverty.

Adriana Gutierrez
Sarasota, FL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: Jennifer Maynard
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 06:57:34 -0400

Adriana, Greetings and all the best for the rest of 2000. Please, Can
you please maile it to Jennifer Maynard, P.O. Box 1809, St. John's,
Antigua, West Indies. I would really appreciate it.

All the best ,

Jennifer
>
> > We've thought of hydro- and
> > aquaponics as valuable tools to use in 3rd and 4th world countries
> > How to bring a high-tech concept
> > into a low-tech environment is what has been stumping me.
>
> DC,
> There is an article in a recent Growing Edge magazine on a Colombian
> working for one of the international agencies (United Nations perhaps)
> who is doing exactly that for hydroponics (no fish). He has fine-tuned
> a simple design for hydro growing tables built out of old pallets and
> uses media based on the best locally available. He runs participants
> through a series of workshops. The end result is a tool to raise
> households out of poverty.
>
> Adriana Gutierrez
> Sarasota, FL
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Introductions (UVI)
From: "Charlie Shultz"
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 07:57:00 PST

My turn,

While we mostly lurk (usually to busy with fish/plants to write), Jim
Rakocy, Don Bailey and myself find this list useful and occassionally we
find the time to contribute.

John Martin is another researcher in our program with a concentration on
green water tank culture of tilapia.

In case you haven't seen our website for the aquaculture/aquaponics program
at the University of the Virgin Islands Agriculture Experiment Station,
check us out at:

http://rps.uvi.edu/AES/Aquaculture

We have big plans for the upcoming year. 2 new greenwater tanks (200m3) are
slated for construction ASAP. In addition, all of our aquaponics systems
will be getting revamped. We have six experimental recirculating raft
aquaponic units that are having the hydroponic troughs replaced. After 15
years, the wooden troughs (fiberglass lined) have finally given in to old
age. We will replace these with cement block troughs lined with a 30 mil
HDPE liner. Also, we are intensifying our commercial scale aquaponic system
for increased fish production. This will include larger fish rearing tanks,
larger clarifiers, and a reconfiguration of water flow. As soon as this
system is available, I will conduct plant trials on a variety of new crops.
In the past we have produced lettuce as our main plant crop, however we are
interested in improving the profit potential of this system by investigating
other plants. Maybe culinary or medicinal herbs, other vegetables, or cut
flowers. As these trials begin I will keep this list informed on progress.

Fortunately, here in the Virgin Islands we have a 12 month growing season.
All of our crops are grown outdoors and currently I have trials of chives,
cucumbers, melons, celery, squash, and comfrey.
Has anyone ever tried yellow summer squash in an aquaponics system. I am
trying a new variety from Johnny's, ZEPHYR. This is the new yellow
straightneck with green tips. The celery and chives, as always, are
thriving in the system water.

One last comment to Ray Schneider (the tomato-lover-grower). Last year I
was able to produce 500lbs of aquaponic tomatoes from 12 plants in one of
our systems (>40lbs/plant). This was without any addition of hydroponic
nutrient formulas. (only slight supplementation during pH adjustments).
Once you get your fishies, do a comparison (including a taste test). Keep
us informed.

Busy daze,
Charlie
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Introductions
From: "William Brown"
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 06:44:37 -1000

Contact the Extension Service at the University of Hawaii and get Dr.
Kratky's paper on Non-circulating Hydroponics (also available from
Hydroponic Society of America http://hsa.hydroponics.org), specifically
geared to using locally available re-cyclable items to setup and produce
hydroponic crops. Greatest features, low initial investment, conserves
water, tailored to your locality and it works.

PS I have used free pallets since 1993 to support my hydroponic tables.

William Brown mahiwai@cmpmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: aquaponics
[mailto:aquaponics]On Behalf Of D.C., Cathy Dreger
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 4:28 PM
To: aquaponics@townsqr.com
Subject: Re: Introductions

Introduction. I'm a development officer for a liberal arts college, doing
marketing, raising funds and thinking about the future of our institution.
Cathy is an administrative assistant (read: runs the joint) for an nonprofit
attached to the college that seeks to provide micro-economic development
projects as part of their Christian ministry. We've thought of hydro- and
aquaponics as valuable tools to use in 3rd and 4th world countries in the
process of not just teaching a man to fish, but teaching him to raise fish
and greens.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: Doug Peckenpaugh
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 10:07:10 -0800

> > We've thought of hydro- and
> > aquaponics as valuable tools to use in 3rd and 4th world countries
> > How to bring a high-tech concept
> > into a low-tech environment is what has been stumping me.

> DC,
> There is an article in a recent Growing Edge magazine on a Colombian
> working for one of the international agencies (United Nations perhaps)
> who is doing exactly that for hydroponics (no fish). He has fine-tuned
> a simple design for hydro growing tables built out of old pallets and
> uses media based on the best locally available. He runs participants
> through a series of workshops. The end result is a tool to raise
> households out of poverty.
>
> Adriana Gutierrez
> Sarasota, FL

On this note, FYI, a short series of articles will be starting in the
May/June issue (which actually comes out in early April) of The Growing
Edge on the same topic. It will focus on this growing system and specific
techniques, crops, etc. These projects have been instituted in Columbia,
Nicaragua, Peru, and Senegal as a test cycle by the United Nations. The
system is slated to expand, but the articles are meant to provide even
wider access to this growing knowledge. The series should last three
issues.

--Doug Peckenpaugh (Editor of TGE)
Corvallis, OR
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: "TGTX"
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 05:59:08 -0600

Adriana wrote:

> You should be able to get \\$5-6/# from restaurant customers IF, you are a
> serious supplier who can provide quality greens on a consistent basis
> (how to do that and still go on vacation I haven't quite figured
> out...:>))
>
> >I have sold salad greens to some customers for \\$8.00/lb
> I sell 8 oz bags of greens to my neighbors for \\$4 and they are happy to
> pay it, but to expand this to a larger group would imply greater
> delivery expenses than a nine year-old on a bicycle...

Yes. I sold over 200 lbs of custom mixed, washed salad greens a week, at
prices averaging about...\\$4.00 to $6.00/lb...in both bulk and serving sized
packages. 40% of my sales was bulk salad greens at \\$4.00/lb, mostly to
large chain grocery stores. 35%of sales were 7oz salads in plastic
clamshells averaging \\$5.80/lb. I also sold 8oz bags of salad greens at an
average of \\$5.46/lb. My basil went for $6.00/lb, but was only about 5% of my
sales. I also sold a smattering of Rainbow Chard.

In addition to the big grocery stores (Central Market, Whole Foods, Sun
Harvest, H.E.B.) I had about 4 or 5 solid restaurant accounts (chefs went
crazy over it...especially the haut cuisine chefs who knew the difference
and found that my salad kept longer than the "California" bulk stuff they
bought from a produce broker) and a couple of small health food stores...and
then there were the people we knew who, by word of mouth or other means,
would come out to buy the greens on site, or I delivered to their homes (one
was a lady's ballet/modern dance studio and aerobics classroom)...these
folks were my most enthusiastic and loyal customers who became "addicted" to
the freshest, best tasting, most nutrious and beautiful salad they had ever
eaten.

But, back to helping out D. Bennet....I just wanted to give D. a "low"
number.... \\$3.00/lbs to "plan" for...in other words, assume you will grow
only 0.2 lbs/ft^2 and get only \\$3.00/lbs and that you will only grow that
maybe 9 or 10 months out of the year...that way, when you actually get
better results, you can be happily surprised. And, suppose D. does not want
to grow fancy-schmancy left coast salad greens? What about run of the mill
tomatoes, or cukes, you name it. It might be hard to fetch higher prices
for that produce...but who knows? Again, I thought D. might just eat the
produce himself...but I wanted to hang a value on the produce for the sake
of discussion.

> Ted, it seems to me that the 2,000 sq ft of grow-bed will pretty much
> fill up that greenhouse if you allow 1/3 of the space for circulation.
> Do you plan to put the fish outside since in Texas that would not be a
> problem? Or vice-versa, are the grow-beds going outside?
>

Oh, yea, those numbers were NOT right. I went back to my floor plan and my
acreage plat map thingy that I drew up and checked them out again. Actually
the greenhouse will be around 2400 ft^2 and the total grow bed area will be
about 1500ft^2. What was I thinking? I guess I wasn't. So, you are correct
there. Both fish and plants are inside. Think 3D. I will make an
instructional/historical/epoch saga video of the design and construction of
the entire system. Complete with smatterings of poetry, sight gags, and
histrionics. This year 2000 thing will be interesting, as usual. Roll the
film!

Right now I gotta go run the State of Texas from a little cubicle in the
People's Republic of Austin, so y'all have a good weekend.

Ted
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: "Michael Merriken" <mlc.merriken@mindspring.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 23:06:03 -0500

Hello all,

My name is Michael Merriken and I live in the suburban sprawl of Atlanta,
GA. With about an acre of land and a picky homeowners association, my foray
into aquaponics has been limited. I wrote a short essay on my homebuilt
system last summer and if anyone wants I will post it again. My system is
still operational; by that I mean the tilapia are alive and so are the
plants in the small growbed. The system even survived a week of ice storms
and power outages. Unfortunately other parts of my life have been more
demanding of late so my system has been neglected during the past few
months. It is currently in a state of equilibrium that requires minimal
attention.

Just a few observations. The tilapia are more hearty and cold tolerant than
I believed. The combination of back-to-back ice storms, spotty power
outages, and a week of no sunshine resulted in the tank water temperature
dipping down well into the 50's with correspondingly intermittent water
circulation, heat, and aeration. Surprisingly, all 27 tilapia survived. My
tomato plants are growing like weeds but they look just like them without
fruit. I occasionally get flowers but they never bare fruit. Lastly, since
the temperature inside my five foot square greenhouse is warmer than the
ambient air, the pests are more of a problem now than they were in the
summer.

I appreciate the generous flow of information on this list and have learned
much. I have had the pleasure of meeting some of you and all have been
gracious hosts and mentors. In the not too distant future I hope to move to
a place with a bit more elbow room and pursue aquaponics seriously.
Hopefully then I can contribute something worthwhile to this list. In the
meantime I will continue to lurk, take notes, and continue to learn and make
my mistakes on my small scale system.

Best of luck in all your efforts,

Michael
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: "Hairo Jairo" <jairo@ausisp.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:12:13 +1000

HELLO Michael,
I am in AUSTRALIA.
I would like very much to see that article if you don't mind sending it to
me.
Thankx.

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Merriken <mlc.merriken@mindspring.com>
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2000 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: Introductions

> Hello all,
>
> My name is Michael Merriken and I live in the suburban sprawl of Atlanta,
> GA. With about an acre of land and a picky homeowners association, my
foray
> into aquaponics has been limited. I wrote a short essay on my homebuilt
> system last summer and if anyone wants I will post it again. >
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: "D.Bennett"
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 07:50:22 -0500

>into aquaponics has been limited. I wrote a short essay on my homebuilt
>system last summer and if anyone wants I will post it again. My system is
>
Please Michael DO post the article.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: Bertmcl
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 10:16:03 EST

Michael,

Please re-post, I am still trying to learn.
good luck.

Bert
------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 15:43:13 -0600

> I thought D. might just eat the
> produce himself...

Or, ahem, herself. Sorry if I assumed..well, you know.
Anyway, D., good luck no matter which way you button your shirt.

Ted
------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 16:50:10 -0600

At 10:16 AM 02/05/2000 EST, Bert wrote:
>Michael,
>
>Please re-post, I am still trying to learn.
>good luck.
>

I've located Mike's earlier post and am reposting it to the list (just in
case he doesn't get to look at his mail to see how popular he's become) :>)
Paula
-----------------------------------------

From: "Merriken, Michael" <Michael.Merriken@GalaxyScientific.com>
To: "'aquaponics@townsqr.com'"
Subject: RE: small family set up
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:10:58 -0400

Hello all,

I have been working quietly over the past few months constructing a
miniature version of the Speraneo's aquaponic system. I also have been
reading many of your posts for many months to learn as much as I could
before I began my first foray into Aquaponics. Thank you for all of your
advice and thoughts. Below is a brief summary of my efforts to date.

First off, I live in a small house in a neighborhood that does not allow
greenhouses. Therefore I needed to keep this system as small as I could to
be unobtrusive. I also wanted to use this as a learning experiment and
therefore one of my goals was to keep the cost down by constructing most the
components myself or scrounging for second hand supplies. The parts I did
purchase new were the pump and the timer. I also decided to purchase a good
quality pump and timer since these are the keys to making this system work
and I could reused them if I decided to build a bigger system.

The growbed is constructed of scrap 2x8s (untreated) and 3/4" plywood picked
up from a friend in the construction business. It is 3ft x 5ft x 8in and is
held together with metal angle brackets. I used marble chips as grow
medium instead of river rock since I found a clearance deal I could not pass
up (30 lb bag for \\$1) There are six bags in the grow bed. The growbed is
lined first with a heavy plastic rip-stop plastic tarp with two layers of 4
mil plastic on top. This may be over-designed but I figured it is the
engineer in me.

The growbed sits on four cinder block columns each four blocks high.
Underneath is a 55 gal glass tank that I picked up at a local pet store who
was getting rid of some old equipment (\\$40). I have a 700 gal/hour pond
pump that pulls the water up to a grid system constructed of 1/2in plastic
tubing that floods the growbed. At the low end of the growbed I installed a
4" plastic drain pipe that drops the water directly back into the tank.
This return action also aerates the water for the fish.

I use a Cyclestat II timer that floods the grow bed every 15 minutes for 3
minutes.

I purchased 30 Nile tialpia from Living Waters. Great people and very
helpful. The fish cost only a few dollars but the shipping by two-day air
was \\$50!! My wife asked if the airline would give me the frequent flyer
miles and the peanuts for the fish! I put 22 fish in the 55 gal tank and
put 8 fish is a separate standard 15 gal aquarium (just in case I really
messed up).

In the grow bed I put a mixture of plants and seeds:
Four marigold, three basil, and six pepper plants
Lettuce, basil, and salad cress seeds.

The plants and seeds were put in a few weeks ago after I cleaned and
initialized the system. The plants look a little weak but are still alive
and all the seeds are sprouting. The fish are growing nicely. I need to
get a small scale to track their growth.

All of this is enclosed in a 5ft x 6ft x 6 ft mini-greenhouse outside that I
built from scrap 1x2s and 4 mil plastic sheeting. When it starts to get
cooler here in Atlanta I plan to add furring strips and another layer of
plastic to help insulate it during the winter. I will probably need to add
a tank heater to keep the water temp in the tolerable range for the fish and
plants.

All total I have spent just over \\$350 (primarily the pump and timer) so far.
I will be glad to accept recommendations or suggestions for improvements.

I do have a question. In one post someone suggested barley straw to control
algae growth. Where does one get this from?

Thanks,

Michael Merriken
Novice Aquaponic-er
-=---------------------------------

S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: About me
From: "Melisa Wennerholm"
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 21:23:11 -0800

HI
About 7 Years ago I Started studying aquaculter at a collage in Northern California. I lived in LA and had to Fly back and forth ever 10 days or so. My background before this was Alarms I owned a burglar and fire alarm company, however I loved to grow food mostly the "normal Way" in the ground. Had fooled with Hydro. A little but at that time there was little being done organically in the area, so I stayed in the ground. Sooo when studying Aquaculture in school learning about the nitrate/nitrite trouble. Plant filtering seemed like a very good filter with a added benefit of food. One of my projects in school was a small scale green house set up that work OK . To make a long story endless we moved to northern to prosper in aquaculter lost our butts and now I am back in the alarm Biss. and fooling around with Aquaponics.
That's my Story I like this group so far lots of good in put

Thank You

Don
------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: About me
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 18:44:08 -0600

At 09:23 PM 02/06/2000 -0800, Don wrote:
>HI
> About 7 Years ago I Started studying aquaculter at a collage in Northern
California. I lived in LA and had to Fly back and forth ever 10 days or so.
My background before this was Alarms I owned a burglar and fire alarm
company, however I loved to grow food mostly the "normal Way" in the
ground. Had fooled with Hydro. A little but at that time there was little
being done organically in the area, so I stayed in the ground. Sooo when
studying Aquaculture in school learning about the nitrate/nitrite trouble.
Plant filtering seemed like a very good filter with a added benefit of food.
One of my projects in school was a small scale green house set up that work
OK . To make a long story endless we moved to northern to prosper in
aquaculter lost our butts and now I am back in the alarm Biss. and fooling
around with Aquaponics.
>That's my Story I like this group so far lots of good in put
>
>Thank You
>
>Don

Don - glad to have you on the list. Sometimes most of our new subscribers
are coming from a hydroponics background, so it's good to see some new
aquaculture backgrounds to help balance us out.

Business failures are not a new item, at least to many of us; but we're glad
your planning to use your training (and obviously your passion) to restart.
It would probably take months to discuss all the false starts and flops in
the various businesses represented by just our group of over 360 members.
And sometimes it's best to skip the hard part and move on to what does work.
Hope that aquaponics will be the key to your success.

Paula Speraneo
S&S Aqua Farm, http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
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Subject: Re: introductions
From: Jennifer Maynard
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 23:53:55 -0400

Marc, Did you study at Mac Donald College of McGill University from
19777 to 1979? You rname bings a bell.

LABERGE MARC wrote:
>
> Hello all, My name is Marc Laberge I live up in Quebec near Mont Tremblant
> a sort of Whistler resort on the east side of Canada ). While finishing off
> my BSc at McGill University I had a chance to work with recirc systems for
> many years in our lab, while becoming a fish parasitologist specialist. I
> managed one of Quebec's largest fish farms , long enough to see the drastic
> effects of fish farm effluent on what once was a beautiful lake 1 hour north
> of Ottawa.
> I also worked with the Cree community of northern Quebec for many years
> conducting commercial fishery pilot projects determining quantity and
> quality of fish belonging to the native communities.
> On one hand I saw the nutrient rich waters of a fish farm being given to
> algae in the lake and on the other hand I saw how fresh vegetables are so
> hard to come by in the northern communities.
> I am presently renting a house on a pay-per-inch fish farm belonging to one
> of my ex-students. I have built a lab and am presently working on achieving
> a balance between speckled trout , bacteria growth and lettuce/ fine herbs
> crop . I use many of the tilapia equations which I must modify for trout and
> bacteria at 15C (60F ). I am still analyzing markets and risk factors before
> starting up a 12 tone commercial pilot project on this farm.
>
> I am still amazed at how knowledge can be so quickly passed on via great
> people and internet, thank you.
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Subject: Introduction and questions
From: Ryon Lucke <JRYONLUCKE@excite.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 06:40:15 -0800 (PST)

Hi everybody-
I have been "lurking" for several days, so will now make my presence
known. I am Ryon Lucke, I live in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley (not far
from Ray Schneider, though I don't know him, though I do recognize the place
where he works.)
My wife (of 24 years- anniversary coming up) discovered Tilapia at the
grocery store, and I have always craved fresh tomatoes in the winter, so
this notion of producing them jointly is very interesting.
We'll start small- like an old bathtub I happen to have, and about 10
cubic feet of growing bed. The longer-term goal will be one fish per day,
year round. It sounds like that will produce more produce than one family
can eat, so we'll be doing some marketing, I suppose.
Past that I entertain the notion- between the tinkering and the
growing- that this might be a business my wife and I can both work at, off
in the future someplace.

Now the questions-
If Tilapia can gulp air at the surface, why did David's fish die in
less than 9 hours? Did the tank have too little surface area for the fish
to "gulp," or is there a limit to how long they can do this, or is something
else at work?

How do you get the process started? How big do the fry have to be
before thay will support a bed of germinated seeds, and until you have
growing plants, how do you keep the fish water clean?

Presumably a continuous small-volume pump irrigating the growing beds
is as effective as the "batch" process where the beds are watered every so
often?

Does anybody know how much and what kind of light tomatoes (and other
produce-especially cucumbers) need in mid-winter?

Who is that down east of Richmond? Do you have a working system with
fish in it?
Thanks

Ryon Lucke
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Hello & Introduction
From: Rboylan2
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 01:37:17 EST

Hi All,

My name is Richard, and this is my second time joining this Aquaponics list,
but during my previous subscription I was just a lurker. So here goes the
introduction...

My direct experience with fish farming and aquaponics in particular grew out
of two years of work with Ocean Arks International, and their aquaponic and
waste-treating engineered ecosystems known as Living Machines. At the time I
worked there (1996-1998) OAI was exploring the use of small to medium sized
(125 to 1000 gallon) systems for household and educational uses, but their
primary work focused on bioremediation of polluted lakes. Nonetheless, there
was enough fish-farming to get me exploring, and have a bunch of fine
grilled-tilapia dinners with students and coworkers. I also killed a few
fish, learned about the dangers of using too-flimsy materials (always costs
ya more in the long run), and realized that I wanted to farm and work the
earth more than be in an office dealing with financial audits and such. While
working at OAI, I also lived for a while at the site of the New Alchemy
Institute. It was quite something to see the remains of 25 years of
experimentation with aquaponic systems. Many of the old alchemists are still
around there, and I owe much of my learning to their kind willingness to
teach.

I'm now residing in Northern California, working as a Permaculture designer
and gardner for a massage school. There's a built-in market here, since the
school kitchen serves fish once a week or so to approximately 100 students,
staff and neighbors. They also serve a lot of fresh greens, tomatoes,
peppers, etc. I've been talking up the possibilities of greenhouse-based
tilapia aquaponics for nearly a year now, but am only now beginning to write
up a business plan and seek start-up capital. No doubt, y'all will see
questions and musings from me on this subject as things progress.

I'm psyched to be part of this listserv - the knowledge and enthusiasm are
impressive and (hopefully) contagious. I'll gladly pitch in what I know and
hope to learn from all of you...

-Richard Boylan

-----------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introductions
From: djhanson@calweb.com
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 07:12:33 -0800

Okay, okay. Enough lurking. I'll peek my head out and let you all know
I'm still around. But I warn you all, if it gets ugly in here again I'll
disappear and go back to eavesdropping on all of you and just dreaming
of getting started.

My wife & I have been raising ornamental tropical fish for several
years.
Sometimes with more success, sometimes less. At one point we were
selling
1-1/4" catfish (Corydoras sterbai) for \\$2 EACH in 100 lots. \\$10-15/lb
isn't too bad for fish that only take 3 months to go from spawn to sale!

Well, I finally bought a house last year and moved 80+ tanks, 1000+
gallons of water, out of the apartment. Unfortunately, we lost the vast
majority of our breeding stock and are still in the process of building
back up. However, in the process of settling in, I find myself with the
opportunity to set up a small scale aquaponic system. I'll either be
using a 55 gallon tank with approximately 5 sq. ft of growing space or a
100 gallon tank with 7 sq ft of growing space. I still don't don't know
what exactly I'll be trying to grow. (I'll probably only have 2' or so
between the surface of the grow bed and the ceiling.) I'm probably
leaning towards various herbs for our personal use, but that seems like
an AWFUL lot just for personal use!

Any advise, suggestions, etc.? I need something that will work with a
continuous flow of water, and preferably something fairly inexpensive
as well. If it works out, I may be able to talk my wife into letting me
build a greenhouse onto the back of the fish room we're constructing at
which point I'll be using the hydroponics beds as the primary filtration
for another 1,000 gallons or so of fish tanks and probably be looking
to grow assorted veggies for our dinner table.

--- dj
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Introduction
From: ESohm
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:00:28 EST

Hello everyone,
My name is Evan Sohm, and I've been lurking on this list now for several
months. I find the material very interesting and came across this list while
doing a websearch on Tilapia after hearing a radio spot on NPR describing
some genetically improved (?) Tilapia Aquaculture work going on at Yale?

The warm water requirement, and fish production aspect of this business
sparked my interest in this as a potential business for a new eco-industrial
park being built in my town where a 750 MW electrical co-generation power
plant will be built in 2002. This power plant will serve as the anchor
facility for this "park" and will provide waste steam to the surrounding
businesses for whatever their "eco-industrial" purposes might be. Up here in
cold New England, where we are losing much of the fish stocks off Georges
Bank due to overfishing, it seemed possible that one could start a business
in an eco-industrial park that utilizes the waste steam from the power plant
to heat the aquaponics operation. This would give us great quality fresh
produce and fish all year long, without depleting the ocean stocks currently
in decline.

It appears that some on this list like to garden, others like to grow fish,
and still others tend to do what they want, at their own pace to get by
working on their own in a small scale operation. But I am interested in
starting and growing a business. This seems to be a curiously interesting
and rewarding business that might make it up here in New Hampshire because of
the combination of low cost waste heat availability, mostly sunny skies,
proximity to many great restaurants, and the specialty markets of the greater
Boston Metropolitan area.

My wife and I are 45, we're Chem/Bio majors, and looking to work together as
part of a lifestyle change. I've been employed for 20 years as a product
marketing manager for hi-tech capital equipment firms that sell into the
semiconductor market. However, I am not crazy about this line of work any
longer. We have 3 kids in town schools, and would look forward to inviting
the local schools to visit us to learn how ecosystems can work symbiotically
and profitably.

If anyone can steer me in the direction of how to begin to run the numbers of
a business plan for this type of business, I would be grateful. Access to
capital, labor, and markets eager for this produce should not be a problem.
I have a thousand questions, but the most important one is, what kind of
capital investment is required to build a profitable commercial aquaponics
operation?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: introduction and request for information
From: "beacnhrt"
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 07:48:29 -0600

Hi everyone,
My name is Melvin Landers. During the late 1960's I was an agricultural missionary in the Upper Amazon River Basin. Since then I have developed a cropping rotation using deep beds of organic matter which can replace slash and burn practices. I call it the Mayan Method because, I believe, it is similar to the method used in the Classic Mayan Period to feed millions of people in the Yukatan. The Maya grew crops on levies in the swamps and raised snapping turtles in the water between the levies. I have been informing people about this method and have just set up a web site with the information posted. But, there is no information on the site about aquaculture because I know nothing about it.

Paula has informed me about some possible resources and I will soon be visiting S & S. But she also suggested I ask you folks for advice. I would very much like to offer information about raising either turtles or fish. That is, if there is a fish that can take stagnant murky water such as would be found in ditches dug between growing beds without oxygenating equipment. The people who will be using this system are subsistance farmers who can not afford equipment of any kind. If this is impossible, just tell me and I will concentrate on turtle culture. If it is possible I could use every bit of information you can give meMel

P.S. http://members.tripod.com/melvinlanders is my web site.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Introduction
From: wills/nachreiner
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:32:57 -0600

At 08:00 PM 2/16/2000 EST, you wrote:
>Hello everyone,
>My name is Evan Sohm, and I've been lurking on this list now for several
>months. I find the material very interesting and came across this list
while
>doing a websearch on Tilapia after hearing a radio spot on NPR describing
>some genetically improved (?) Tilapia Aquaculture work going on at Yale?
>
>The warm water requirement, and fish production aspect of this business
>sparked my interest in this as a potential business for a new eco-industrial
>park being built in my town where a 750 MW electrical co-generation power
>plant will be built in 2002. This power plant will serve as the anchor
>facility for this "park" and will provide waste steam to the surrounding
>businesses for whatever their "eco-industrial" purposes might be. Up here
in
>cold New England, where we are losing much of the fish stocks off Georges
>Bank due to overfishing, it seemed possible that one could start a business
>in an eco-industrial park that utilizes the waste steam from the power plant
>to heat the aquaponics operation. This would give us great quality fresh
>produce and fish all year long, without depleting the ocean stocks currently
>in decline.
>

Just wondering about what you will get from the utility. Will it be a
continuous flow of warm clean water? If so then you will have water
discharge and will have to make sure that the discharge meets effluent
limits. This should be possible with an aquaponics system using the plant
section as a scrubber to take care of nutrients you add for the fish and
that the fish add to the water. You will want to design in such a way that
the authorities are satisfied that you cannot have escape of fish. In
other words, don't have the fish at the end of the process. Maybe this was
too obvious to mention.

You need to figure out how much of the fish nutrients you can provide from
what you grow in the plant section and how much you will have for
additional nutrient costs. Then you need to figure out what the value of
the fish sales and the additional produce will be after marketing costs and
unforeseen losses. And you have to be careful that the plants don't
require aditng nutrients or medicinals that will create water discharge
issues.

Sounds like a great idea. Let us know more.
Box185 Plain,Wi 53577
(608) 546-2712
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Subject: RE: introduction and request for information
From: "Ron Brooks" <wolfwalker@oberlin.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:19:09 -0500

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A couple of quick thoughts on this

A small inexpensive dissolved oxygen kit will tell you in rough terms what
the oxygen content of the water is. From there recommendations for fish type
will be possible. I would take at least three readings. Once first thing in
the morning when the sun is just starting to come up , this should be the
lowest level the oxygen drops to. Once in mid day when the sun is shining ,
and once a couple of hours after dark has fallen .
One thing to remember is if you add fish , any algae and will be eaten ,
which should help with the stagnation. Plus a low tech method of aeration
could be as simple as having the children run and splash in the dikes
several times a day or to a simple windmill design made up of cut 55 gallon
drums attached to a paddle at the waters surface.

That is the quick thoughts off the top of my head

Ron
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